Keyboard/Mouse or Joystick

[Cambragol]

I am little confused...any joypads, which include some logitech, saitek, microsoft x360, and ps2 controllers and a few others, that I have ever used, are completely interchangable with joysticks in any games I have played. As an example, when playing I-war, my Logitech Wingmen automatically sets up the two sticks for roll yaw etc, and the pad for the hat. Then I have 10 more buttons that are setup for weapons cycling, targeting, autopilots etc. I have also used the 360 controller, and a ps2 controller equally well with I-war and a few other space/flight shooters. And all on a Mac!

From a windows perspective, I believe joypads and joysticks are just treated equally as 'gaming devices'. Heck, control panel interface for tweaking them is shared.

Anyways, in answer to your question, it is an unmodified version. Just plug and play!

[PINBACK]

Interesting I will have to try a jopad with Iwar when I get the other computer back

[Shingen]

i think Freelancer was one of the first mouse/keyboard flight control and I thought it responded well and that was it after that. I think a game wouldn't do well at all if it came out as joystick only today.

Actually, I think the first to use the keyboard/mouse setup for space flight was Frontier: Elite 2...circa 1993

[NucNuc]

Cambragol wrote:
I played the game and was shocked by how much of the illusion of the simulation was ripped away by mouse control.

Something I can only agree on. And I have never seen a real life cockpit with a mousepad adjusted anywhere.
Any kind of simulation game is played to drop out of your daily RL and be part of a different world, universe, reality. But to be there the set up should be as realistic as possible and flying is and will be done by joke or flightstick for a looong time to go, until something like this atari mind control thing will be feasable.

About the better "fine" control might you have with a good gamer mouse and keyboard:
1. I think it is a bit of cheating to use a control more sensitive and accurate than it could be done in reality. Something I did by myself on some occasions. Especially on missions, where you weren't flying but controling a turret (there were such missions in Project Freedom, Yeager (OK, not really space but flying) or Dark Star One). But these were non-flying mission and I my opinion the coders just forget to implement a proper adjustment of the controls sensitivity for this missions.
2. Where the development of mouse sensitivity and handling is gone further and further almost NOTHING has changed in the Joystick sector technically in the last 20 years. The movement are still transponded by potentiometers and physical, electric contact, the mechanical part made of materials cheaper and cheaper. Where are the optical controlled Joysticks or the electromagnetically working force feedback effects ? And about the materials: Sometimes I still use an age old logitech Wingman Force with its almost undestroyable steel strings, where I was able to crash 3 logitech Strike Force 3d in one and a hlf years time. For 4 logitech Extrem 3d I only needed about 10 months and a Thrustmaster Force Feedback, the one with the separate thrustcontol only lasted about 5 month before the first button went off.

[Darkone]

1. I think it is a bit of cheating to use a control more sensitive and accurate than it could be done in reality. Something I did by myself on some occasions. Especially on missions, where you weren't flying but controling a turret (there were such missions in Project Freedom, Yeager (OK, not really space but flying) or Dark Star One). But these were non-flying mission and I my opinion the coders just forget to implement a proper adjustment of the controls sensitivity for this missions.

To be honest I think that is why I moved to mainly keyboard/mouse play Nuc, I just got tired of always trying to calibrate or my joystick just wore down to make targeting pretty difficult at times and like you stated you have gone through a few joysticks. Not saying that hardware should last 10yrs but can be an expensive hobby to be replacing them all the time. I know right now I have a 1600 dpi gaming mouse and the responsiveness is just amazing and weighted almost perfectly.

Now I do agree joysticks do improve the experience of the flight experience when they are working flawlessly. And with todays desks and chairs do really play well with joysticks so I find myself holding it on my lap. So for comfort sake I usually use the mouse. Sometimes I think developers are starting to phase out the joystick because the games are getting a lot more fast paced and you need something that will respond quickly and be very accurate.

TrackIR is the closest we might get to mind control least for now

[NucNuc]

Darkone wrote
Sometimes I think developers are starting to phase out the joystick because the games are getting a lot more fast paced and you need something that will respond quickly and be very accurate.

But isn't that the point, were the developers of the games loose a bit of "ground contact", making a simulation game more accurate than reality could ever be ?
Well, you need a most accurate mouse on i.e. strategic games, where you have to single out perhaps a small group of 3-5 warriors or else out of a army of the hundreds and thousends to your hand, or on an ego shooters, where your controler has to be as accurate as your own hand on sniping the bad boys.
But on a flying sim, in space or air or the deep waters of a drowned planet (I really liked aquanox ) I WANT to have all the problems a pilot has to fight with and that includes a sometimes abit sluggish steering on your stick, especially if you try to fight half a dozen interceptor while flying a rusty GTR or cargo-tug.

On the other hand I don't know, why the developers of game controls have lost contact to the games and don't offer i.e. flight sticks with an accuracy matching the games and my big grubby hands?

[Cambragol]

I think we are also looking at the difference between 'games' and 'simulations' here. Games are focusing on gameplay, and simulations are simulating some kind of real world experience. Games sacrifice reality for game mechanics, where as simulations might do the opposite. Most obviously though, simulations would expect to have a control device closely resembling the real world counterpart. The better the simulation the closer to the real world counter part the control device will be. An example would be shuttle or airplane simulators used to train astronauts and pilots. Their controls are essentially the same as a real shuttle's or airplane's.

Getting back to Space Sims, my purpose in playing them is to simulate something that I most likely will never experience otherwise. Space flight and or space travel. That is probably the main reason why I would opt for a joystick/gamepad everytime. In the near term, they are a closer approximation to the controls one might expect to find in a spacecraft than mice and keyboards. I am not really interested in playing a game, but rather desire to experience the simulation of piloting a space craft.

[Geraldine]

Hi
I have to say the mouse and keyboard combo is my preference, but then again, I have been playing space sims since the 8bit days, so not a lot of choice back then as the joysticks weren't up to much. Strangely though, I do prefer a joystick when playing flight sims like FSX

[Empyrean]

Depends:
When I'm not doing anything, just flying around, then joystick (too lazy to use two hands )
Any other time: mouse and keyboard.
Summa summarum, I didn't use my joystick in ages

[Bullwinkle]

Short Story:
Games are not the reason that I sit down at my computer. The PC has a keyboard and a mouse, so the game I pick to play during a short break should use the same.

Longer Story:

• Joysticks are faster and more precise than any other controllers -- and they also fit the "brain" best. But they are large, expensive, and you may need more than one to fit all of your favorite games. They require more work... too much work for my taste (but I have had a lot of fun with them).
• Sidewinder-style stick with built-in throttle and rudder/turret control = most successful implementation of a joystick.
• Logitech = Best Manufacturer. Other companies may make a great controller or two, but Logitech has many pages full of winners.
• CH Flightstick Pro = Most fun; perfect number of buttons.
• Thrustmaster HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick) with Rudder Pedals = best sense of realism.
• Joypads are vastly inferior in speed and precision, but they are somewhat standardized, small, and cost effective. Standardization is good for everyone. Plus, an entire generation of kids has grown up with them, so cars will probably have joypads instead of steering wheels, in another generation or two. In other words, I think joypads are a long-term runner-up to keyboard and mouse (even though they are kind of lame for actually controlling anything).
• In the Tangentially Relevant Category: Logitech Harmony = State Of The Art in home theater remote controls. Harmony brings a little bit of order to the (utterly stupid) chaos.

Bottom Line:
1) Keyboard and Mouse as primary interface.
2) Joypads as a standardized secondary interface. (Hopefully they will improve in time.)
3) Joystick for hard-core fun and sense of realism.

[PINBACK]

I have to say Iam coming around to the idea of using a joypad,just been playing a bit of the PS1 game Colony Wars.The game does not have all the features of pc space sim,but it playes very well,much better than the PS1 Wing Commander games did.

[Aitor]

I will say mouse / keyboard. I used to have a joystick on my old computers but I get tired of calibrating it all time, I guess it was no so good. I must confess that playing with joystick could be very exciting but keyboard+mouse is more suitable to me.

[SolCommand]

Keyboard/Mouse are my favorites